Shirley Association Genealogical Research Website

Posted a conflicting DNA results from Branch 9, Moses Shirley of Barren Co KY and Hamilton Co IL. Results are as expected and connect to the largest DNA Shirley grouping in the E1b1b1 haplotype.

The following updated DNA marker profiles have been posted to their respective haplotype webpages

Three R1b extended marker results have been posted. Branch #24 John b 1780s and Mahala Frost, Branch #41 John Pinkney Shirley of Choctaw AL, MS, and Branch #53 Jacob Shirley 1812 liv. Warren Co. TN 1834

Match! Posted 13-25 markers for the Shirleys of Shouldham Norfolk. These results confirm a match with a large group of US Shirleys in the R1b haplotype.

Posted a DNA result for the Shirley family of Shouldham Norfolk England (now living in New Zealand). They are R1b haplotype and appear at first glance to match a large number of English and US families in that haplotype (1 marker off on a 12 marker test). Extending DNA results to more markers will provide a confirmation of any matches.

Discovery Connected a DNA participant's lineage in Haplogroup I1 to an established Shirley Branch (#20) thanks to the info we received from the test.

A new DNA result has arrived for the family of Edward W. Shirley b 1833 living Botetourt VA. (Haplogroup I1) This family is not related to the Patrick Shirley/Sharkey family of branch 18 who also lived in Botetourt VA. Results for Edward's lineage point to a connection with Branch 20, Robert Shirley and Susannah Baker of Pennsylvania.

News. New DNA results from Branch #16 William Shirley (of Mercer KY) shows a match with the Shirley families of Culpeper VA, Adair KY (and Spotsylvania VA), White Co TN etc. Long-time Shirley Association member Elwood Shirley once asked relatives about the origins of his Kentucky family and they replied Culpeper VA. This exciting result seems to confirm Elwood's relatives' response. Now, the task is to find a William Shirley b 1788 in the lineage of the Shirleys of Culpeper, known as Branch #21 James and Judith Garriot Shirley.

Updated results (markers 38-48) posted for E1b1b1 haplogroup Branch #4 Benjamin Shirley (m. Hughes) of SC - descendants via son Nathaniel

FTDNA recently reformulated all of our Shirley haplotypes thus allowing further distinction among family branches. Betty and I will be changing these identification codes on the website in a few days.

Added a new and exciting DNA result for the R1b1 haplotype. This new Middlesex lineage is only 1 marker off from the Shirleys of Long Crendon (Ludgershall/Brill) Bucks. We fully expect extended tests to confirm the match. The Long Crendon DNA is the closest match to the Shirleys of Ettington. There is still a remote possibility of establishing a match between the two, but the Shirley Association needs many more Long Crendon/Ludgershall/Brill DNA results to form a common marker pattern for the group.

Added a few 38 - 67 marker extension results for participants in the E3b haplogroup. I have also restructured the 3 main marker results pages to allow for these longer test results.

New extended results posted today from the Kidlington Oxfordshire lineage continues to match the main USA E3b DNA profiles.

NEWS. Haplotype I - DNA results show a match between USA branch #20 Robert Shirley (married Susan Baker) of Springfield, Bucks County Pennsylvania who was likely Scotch-Irish and branch #58 Thomas Shirley b 1797 New Hampshire whose family lived in Messina New York. Robert Shirley had a son named Thomas (b 1776 in Bucks PA), so the direct linkage between the two families is still a mystery. Of course, the birth of Thomas Shirley of branch #58 in New Hampshire immediately creates a potential research link to the main New Hampshire Shirley family (branch #25) who were of Irish ancestry (and more likely Ulster Irish which consisted largely of transplated Scots). It's important to note that the the Shirley DNA project has only 1 particpant who supposedly descends from branch #25 and that person's DNA haplotype is R1b1 rather than haplotype I, the group shown for the above branches #20, #58, #44 and 2 other unlinked lineages; therefore, we desperately need additional particpants from branch #25 to confirm that branch's DNA marker profile. New participants from that branch will not only help research targeting their own family's origins, but possibly help sort out so many other Scotch-Irish lineages.

Are YOU a descendant of the New Hampshire Shirleys in branch #25? If so, please consider participating in the Shirley DNA project. Just click on this button....

NEWS. Haplotype E3b1 - DNA just confirmed that branches 27 (brother of branch 26) and 28 are related. Frederick Co VA.

If you have a predicted or tested E3b haplotype, and haven't yet joined our project already, I would like to encourage you to do so now.

We currently have pver 640 members and we're growing rapidly. With a team of knowledgeable project administrators, and a group of collaborators, this project is a fantastic resource for any E3b who wants to better understand his results, matches, origins, where he fits within the overall E3b tree, and more.

It takes only a minute to join. Just visit the project's website at http://www.ftdna.com/public/E3b -- click the Request to Join This Group link at the top left, sign in to your MyFTDNA account, and click the small Join button on the bottom left, below the project description and surnames. It's that simple!

Haplozone
http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project
A groundbreaking new tool for haplogroup project management, designed from the ground up by E3b project administrator Victor Villarreal. This site contains tons of information about E3b, advanced tools for comparing project members to each other and to databases such as Ysearch, Ymatch, YHRD and SMGF, charts showing the genetic relationships between members, and so much more. New features are also on the way. For instance, members should soon be able to compare themselves to the clusters that Elise Friedman identified through her cluster study and determine exactly where they fit in to the greater E3b tree. There are additional plans in the works and the possibilities are endless.

Double-Helix
http://community.haplozone.net/
A discussion forum at Haplozone, where E3b project members and anyone else interested in E3b can ask questions and share ideas on all topics related to E3b. Or simply to ask what your results mean. There's a great amount of information and discussion going on here already, and more members are joining the discussions every day.

Finally, if you have exact or close matches on your Y-DNA Matches page at FTDNA, please let them know about the E3b project and invite them to join as well. The more information we have about you and your matches, the more we can learn about your cluster, your subclade and about E3b overall -- and then we can pass that knowledge back to you, our members.

Denis Savard
E3b Project Co-Administrator
denis@savart.info
e3b.project@gmail.com

Thanks to the participation of so many people in our DNA project, the Shirley Association can now announce a genetic match between the largest group of Shirleys, the E3b Haplogroup, living in the USA and an ancient group of Shirleys from Brill, Buckinghamshire England.

Check an important connection we learned about in Sept of last year. I posted about the Ireland and the USA E3b connection under the Sept 18th and 19th 2006 post below. You may want to scroll down to those dates and read.

Last year I met the Shirley descended from the Ireland group on Sunday in Kent and the following Sat at the Ettington gathering I met 2 sisters who became interested in the Shirley DNA project. They said they were going to talk to their brother about doing the test. Dec 30th 2006 they emailed me to let me know they had just ordered the DNA kit. The results came in a few days ago for the 1-12 markers and they matched the Ireland Shirley's DNA and it also matches with our Shirleys in the USA E3b Haplogroup. Last night the results came in for the 13-25 marker test and it continued to match. THIS IS EXCITING NEWS! The Shirleys of the E3b group are connected to the Brill Buckingham Shirleys who are an old line in Buckingham. Members can visit the Buckingham County web page on our site to see how far back the Shirleys were there. No doubt the Ireland Shirleys went from England to Ireland in the 1600-1700's.

Update: Kit # 16625 matches with kits who did the 1-12 marker tests only, 10973, 14206, 16565, and continued to match on the two kits who did the 1-25 markers kits #8434 and 8759. I would assume the Kits who only did 1-12 marker test would have continued to match had they tested the 13-25 markers. See Haplogroup R1b1 Chart. (yellow area of the chart).

Since the last posting, Kit #73699 result has come in and you will find the results in the Haplogroup R1b chart in the cream color section of the chart. It matches several other lineages.

Also kit #76256 results have come in and you will find this posted in Haplogroup I chart in the gray color area of this chart. You can see who the results match when looking at the lineages appearing with it in the gray section.

Our thanks to those who have done the DNA testing and I see we have 4 more who have signed up since these results have come in. I appreciate your support in helping us build the connections thru DNA. Please be sure to promptly return the kit after you have received it. I see one ordered but not sent back to the lab in May, 2 in June and 1 in August of 2006. It would be very helpful if you could please do the test and mail the kit back. If you have any questions about it, please email me at Bettyshirley@comcast.net

Since our last posting on this page, we have received the following results for kit #67158 & #72670 and both are in Haplogroup I. These results show connection to the Staffordshire Shirleys in England. Results for kit #73699 also came in for Haplogroup R1b1. Go to the DNA chart pages and click on the Haplogroup I or R1b1 and find the kit number on the right side of chart. I just realized we have not added #73699 to color chart but will get that done ASAP. In the mean time it will be under Noah branch #81. We already have one posted for Noah on the chart. An extended test result is in for Kit #63957 in Haplogroup E3b descendant of Benjamin and Eliz. Hughes Shirley, branch #4.

Y-DNA tests results have indicated a shared Most Recent Common Ancestor among the descendants of Thomas and John Shirley (VA?, NC, SC?, White & Marion Counties, TN and Jackson County, AL), Joseph Kinsey Shirley (Henry County, AL), Eli Wiley Shirley (MS and AR), John Shirley (Adair County, KY), William D. Shirley (NC, White & Marion Counties TN, and Montgomery County, IL), George Shirley (Marylebone, London, England), John Ambrose Shirley ( Lewis and Mason Co. KY, and IN), Thomas Shirley (Fairfield County, SC,and IL and MO), James Shirley (Culpeper County, VA), and Noah Shirley (White and Putnam Counties, TN). There are still many gaps to fill in order to connect these family lines to a specific common ancestor.

The first record I have found related to my line is the 1800 census, Rutherford County, NC, page 144. Thomas Shirley is listed with two sons under age 10 and one daughter under age 10. Thomas' age was listed as between 28 and 44 indicating that he was born between 1756-1778.

The names of three Shirley heads of families began to appear in White County , TN court and tax records by 1811. Their names were Thomas, Champanous (Champion) and John Shirley. The appearance of John Shirley in the company of Thomas remains just as mysterious as the sudden appearance of Champion Shirley earlier.Y-DNA test results indicate a close relationship among their descendants but the exact family tie among these three Shirley men is yet to be determined.

The White County, TN 1820 census gives us some additional information about these three, but it also raises some unanswered questions. Thomas Shirley was listed with two sons born between 1810-1820. Who were they? Could one have been Noah born in 1809 and living in White County in 1850? Thomas Jr. born in 1798 in NC so he would have been twenty two years old in 1820. William D. was born in 1800 in NC/SC? (Rutherford County, NC was located along the border between the two Carolinas ) so he would have been twenty in 1820. Where were these two sons when the 1820 census was taken?

I have been collecting data and records for over forty years. If you can fill in gaps in my genealogy, I will appreciate it. Please include your sources.

From Betty Shirley: New Shirley researchers often ask if I can give them suggestions on where to direct their search. Older Shirley researchers have told me they have run out of ideas for places to search. DNA is giving us a much needed new sense of direction to continue our search. It can raise questions and new thoughts we haven't considered before. We are finding other groups of Shirleys connected to us we had no idea were connected. When they say " DNA picks up where the paper trail ends" they are not kidding. Thank you to all who have participated in the DNA project. If we do not have a representative for your group of Shirleys, will you consider being a participant or if you are female or descend from a female Shirley, can you find a male SHIRLEY to do the testing in your place? Here is the link to enroll in the DNA project. Thank you! (The entire email from Raymond Shirley is in the member area for White Co. TN).

From Ken
The new DNA results for the Kilkenny Ireland Shirley branch was stunning to descendants of the largest bunch of USA Shirley branches. They matched! This result means that the various USA E3b DNA Shirley branches either

1) migrated from Ireland to America as early as the mid 1600s (for example, to Northumberland Virginia) or

2) the USA groups and the Ireland branch both descend from an earlier common English ancestor or

3) Some of the early USA groups migrated from England while their cousins migrated from Ireland some time later.

While there is no tradition of Irish ancestry in most of the USA E3b DNA branches, it's interesting to note that one of the USA branches (#22) has a family tradition of 5 brothers migrating from Ireland to Virginia and then south to Georgia. This branch first appears in Virginian records in the mid 1700s. Of course, this group could have originated out of Ireland a century after the other USA groups migrated while the family still lived in England.

Are the Kilkenny Shirleys originally from England? Stemmata Shirleiana supports that thesis. It says the ancestor of that group came over to Ireland with King William's army and settled in the county of Wexford (near Kilkenny)
While the Irish match is certainly exciting, it's probably safe to assume that we still need to find a DNA match to an early English group of Shirleys. That may be good news, because Irish records were largely destroyed in the 1920s. Trying to pinpoint a 17th century Irish lineage would be an almost impossible task.

You connect to an Ireland Branch. Please visit the E3b DNA chart. This is really BIG News!

I am so pleased to be able to share this info with you. At last we have a connection to a Shirley group across the ocean!

Our DNA participant representing this Irish Shirley branch attended one of our meetings in England in June 2006. How delighted I am to have met him and to have encouraged him to do the DNA testing. I had no idea how this was going to turn out. Wow is all I can say, and I have already emailed to tell him how appreciative we are for his participation in the DNA project.

I am reflecting back to May 2005. (You can see the entire posting below). In that posting we had found a connection between the Shirleys of Adair Co. KY, and TN Shirleys with a Shirley family in Australia. We had info as to where in England the Australian Shirley's ancestor came. I said "This is the first group who we have found with International connections. May this be just the beginning of more connections across the ocean. DNA is working!" I was so encouraged about this and I felt inspired to go to the Shirley Reunion in TN last summer. (I have posted this story before but I just want to mention it again). What a wonderful adventure the trip had been for me. I met with a Shirley in GA who was about to have surgery again and could not make a trip to the area I was going to be. Since I flew in and out of Atlanta Georgia I was able to make arrangements for lunch with him, his wife and daughter. At this meeting, he presented me with a check for $1000 and I said I would use it to go to England to encourage the Shirleys of England to participate in our DNA Project. So I was on a trip in GA because of our International find, and with that money it helped pay for my way to England. This gave me the opportunity to meet our Ireland Shirley and encourage him to do the DNA. Now we have another International Shirley connection, all because of the GA trip. Remember, the Shirley in Atlanta who had the surgery died a few weeks later. I know he is smiling! THANK YOU!

The question: Are all branches in USA E3b Haplogroup descended from the Ireland Shirley group OR do they share a common ancestor a few generations earlier, perhaps in England??? The next step in our on going Shirley research.

If you would like access to the Ireland Research records on our site, and there are quite a few, please join the Shirley Association. It is only $20 per year and you are helping to support this work. If you are a member and would like to make a donation to help with additional DNA projects, please go to top of this page and make a donation in the tip jar. Thank you! Betty Shirley

Since the last posting, results for the following kit numbers with either new results or extended results have come in.

10365, 11344, 13881, 15017, 20430 and 34335. These are 13-25 extended test on previous tests.

New DNA results have come in yesterday. Once again we are amazed to learn of another established branch of the Shirleys being related to the Spotsylvania Co. Shirleys. They are James and Judith Garriott Shirley branch #21 of Culpepper Co. VA

Quite a large grouping has surfaced "as related" because of DNA testing. Our thanks to the participants for with out them, this info would be unknown.

Let's review those related in this grouping. (It's been awhile since this page was updated so some info may appear here that hasn't been posted on this page before).

Several DNA results have come in since the last posting on this page and I mentioned them on the WHAT'S NEW page. I will now bring this page up to date.

We have kit # 42730 and the descendant says...My grandfather's name was Cleo Shirley Born near Tomkinsville, Kentucky July 27th 1883 He Married Savannah(Vannie) Coffey @ Summershade K.Y. Cleo's parents Toby and Brocket (Geralds) Shirley My Great grandparents. Cleo Shirley lived in a town named Seymour Il. Most of his life.Thats all we know.

...DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO ABOUT TOBY AND CLEO? I kind of suspect branch #7 as there were descendants from that branch living around Tomkinsville.

Kit #42171 this was for 13-37 markers for the Richard of Edgecombe Co. NC branch #36.

Kit #44296 for branch #9 Moses and Nancy Dale branch 1-25 markers. Amazing that Moses Shirley is in a different Haplogroup than the other Shirleys living around him that he would appear to be related to. He is in Haplogroup R1b and the others in E3b. Strange isn't it? I can't explain it.

Kit #44023 1-25 markers for Robert Shirley who married Ann Kelly in 1851 Liverpool, Lancashire matched EXACTLY with branch #19... Walter Shirley branch in the USA. If only we can trace this England group back a few more generations. We will work on this one... could be a key to the Walter Shirley group.

I WANT TO THANK EACH AND EVERYONE WHO HAS DONE THE DNA TESTING. WE WILL KEEP PUSHING ON WITH THE DNA PROJECT. DON'T FORGET I AM GOING TO ENGLAND IN MAY 2006 TO GET MORE SHIRLEYS INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT.

Several DNA test results have come in. Ken will post them to the color charts on our website as soon as he can. Keep watching for that post.

We have a clue as to the group of Shirleys (Kit #35060) the John Ambrose branch #15 ties into. This branch ties to the Adair Co. KY Shirleys, branch #11 and branch #12, also to branch #24 plus an Australian branch of Shirleys from England. Thanks to our participants we have a connection for John Ambrose descendants. This group of Shirleys appear to be from the Spotsylvania Co. VA Shirleys. Visit our Spotsylvania Co. VA web pages in the members area for continued study.

The results have come in for branch #65 Pickens Co. AL Shirleys. They match exactly on a 25 marker test to branch #7, branch #42 and branch #61. There are other branches and they appear to match but because the others have only done the 12 marker test, I will not list them as the list would be long. You can check this out when these new results are posted on the colored charts.

We just received a 12 marker test result for kit #42171 branch #36 Richard of Edgecombe Co. NC. It matches a previous result from that same group. We will be watching for the 13-25 test result.

DNA results came in for branch #39. On the 25 marker result, the closest group of Shirleys are 4 markers off. That is a Shirley branch of Alstonfield Staffordshire England. Any other groups are 5 or more markers distant. That is a mystery as it has always been thought by these families to be related to branch #24. Descendants from both branches get together for family reunions and even I attended one of these reunions summer of 2005 in TN.

Another DNA test (kit # 35060) as above (branch #15 as above), #36781 branch #72 and #8613 branch #51.

Due: Oct 27th, extended testing for the Ettington group 26-37, extended testing 13-25 for kit #13515 branch #12 is due Oct 11th but a note says if not received yet, it may be rerunning due to inconclusive results. Waiting for Kit #42171 for Edgecombe Co. NC Shirleys .. 13-25 results, kit #42730 due Oct 29th, for grandfather, Cleo Shirley, of Tompkins, KY (haven't established their connection yet to a main branch), and due Oct 29th 1-12 test results for a branch from Warwickshire England with his extended 13-25 due Nov 12th for kit #42833.

I was just checking to see when some DNA results are due. I don't know about you, but I am anxious for them to arrive.

I see the projection date of Aug 19th for 2 people. One is an extended test... 13-25 for Kit #13515, representing Adair Co. KY family branch #12.The other is for a descendant of the John Ambrose branch #15. The 1-12 was due Aug 13th. and the extended 13-25 was due Aug 19th. Neither has come thru yet. So... we wait a little longer.

I see an extended 26-37 test for kit # 13880, is due 9/8. We have a 1-12 result due for branch # 39 on 8/27 and their extended test 13-25 is due 9/2.

There are 3 more people who have results due in Sept. Group from Henry Co. AL, another from Pickens Co. AL and one from PA. Keep watching as I will let you know as soon as I receive the results. Isn't this exciting?

If branch #12 John and Frances Yates from Adair Co. KY and branch #50 Thomas Shirley 1760 of Fairfield Co. S. C. in 1780 continue to match on the 13-25 marker test then it would appear we have to concentrate on the Spotsylvania Co. VA Shirleys since they #12 and #50 are related.

I have always thought the Thomas of Fairfield was out of Spots. The DNA confirmed it. Look at some of the old data on the Spots Co. VA page and you can see a possible father of Thomas. There is that Shirley who appears in the church vestry minutes died about the time suggested in the rev war document.

Now Note: The Barren Co. KY Shirleys DO NOT match the Adair Co. KY Shirleys. I would have thought they were related since they appear in the same county before part was made into Adair Co. This was a surprise to me and only DNA helped us straighten this one out.

Another Note: The Laurens Co. SC Shirleys DO NOT match the Fairfield Co. SC Shirleys. That is kind of a shock too. I would have thought they tied together. Again, it took DNA to sort that one out.

Yet another Note: The Barren Co. KY Shirleys and the Prince William Co. and Fauquier Co. VA Shirleys are the same group. DNA has proven that one correct. We have matched up some other branches we didn't know were connected to this group. Those were some surprises! Check the colored chart Eb3 if you don't remember. Here are a few of the surprises...# 36, 42, 45, 46, 61 etc.... http://www.shirleyassociation.com/NewShirleySite/DNA/haplotype_E3b.html

Today I received the DNA test results on the 13-25 marker for the Shirley in Australia.

On the 12 marker test, the results showed an exact match with branches #24, #51, #12, and off by 1 on #50 and the Australian Shirley. That had my attention. I said, we will watch and see how the next set of markers hold up. Welllll... they have continue to be an exact match.... all 25 markers. This is a related Shirley family group. The family info for the Australian Shirley can be found by going to the nonmembers index page. Go to the bottom of the page and under Australia you will see "pedigrees". Click on that. When that page comes up, click on #2. John George Shirley. This will tell you where in England this family is from. A 3rd cousin of the Shirley in Australia is living in England is doing research on the family and will be updating us soon on what he has found.

Our study will concentrate on the Shirley family in England and who came to America from that family a few generations before the family we see posted on that page.

Unfortunately we do not have a 13-25 marker test for branch #12 and #50. They could be included above, we don't know without the extended testing. I will contact them and see if they well do it.

This is the first group we have found with International connections. May this be just the beginning of more connections across the ocean. DNA is working!

PS... I sent 200 letters to England to promote the DNA. We had no replies. Kind of discouraging. I think it may take me going over and working with them one on one. I might consider doing that only because I can see how much we need to get DNA and establish the groups in England so we may match up our branches in the US to the ones over there.

DNA results came in for another #24 branch descendant. I have looked at those who are a match or a near match.

J-R-E-T-D are initials of those testing and this is to help me keep them straight...

kit # 33054 "J" branch #24 John moved from South Carolina to White Co. TN and in 1818 moved to the Sequatchie Valley in TN with his brother, Thomas Shirley

kit #8579 " R" branch #24 John moved from South Carolina to White Co. TN and in 1818 moved to the Sequatchie Valley in TN with his brother, Thomas Shirley

Kit #13381 "E" branch #50 Thomas Shirley 1760 of Fairfield Co. S. C. in 1780, after the Revolutionary War he lived in Davidson Co., Mc Nairy Co. Tennessee. From there he moved to Clinton, Fayette and Jackson Co. Illinois

R is off by 1 marker which is in the red column. It really is kind of a half marker I think.

So old Thomas Shirley of Fairfield Co. SC who went to Illinois and then to Washington Co. MO appears to be related to the folk in Adair Co. KY and the family of Shirleys who were in White County TN. and some who later lived in Marion Co. TN ?

The last test result for "J" is not posted on colored chart. When Ken has time, he will post it.

Click here... This page may take a few minutes to load. There is a chart on it and some other info.

Because the other page may take to much time to load if I add any more to it, I will post the comparisons of the branches on this page. I have been looking at the connections each branch has to another. These are some of my observations. I am not an expert on this. We can ask for help if there is an area we need additional help to understand.

Note: Remember the following results are based on the first 12 markers only!! The distance could change and show less chance of relationship on the 25 marker and the 37 marker. That is why we encourage you to do the 25 marker test although the 37 marker test is ideal.

Branch #38 Berryman Shirley #10365: 2 markers distance from #18513 Nottingham Co. England and #20430 Stafford Co. England

Warwick Co. England Shirleys #12575: 2 markers distance from #15017 Stafford Co. England

Branch #20 Robert and Susannah Baker #18905 and #23521 has a 0 distance. #10833 Abiather Shirley branch #44 has a distance of 1 marker as does #11686 of Michigan 1900's Shirley.

Ettington Shirleys #9309: 2 markers distance with #12961 Michael and Katie Franz Shirley branch #30, #15834, #18478, #26077 are Walter Shirley #19 descendants, #16899 Stafford Co. England Shirleys, #21098 an 1884 Edgecombe Co NC Shirley

Branch #23 David Shirley of Darlington Co. SC #10973: 0 distance with #8434 and #16625 John Pinkney branch #41, #8759 Jacob Shirley 1812 Living Warren Co. TN in 1834 branch #53, #14206 William Washington Shirley branch #57, #16565 and #18950 John Shirley of Darlington Co. SC branch #56.

Branch #12 John and Frances Yates Shirley of Adair Co. KY #13515: 0 distance with #8613 William D. Shirley 1800 TN living 1850 Montgomery Co. IL, 1 distance with #13881 Thomas Shirley 1755 of Fairfield Co. SC and later MO branch #50, #8579 John and Mahala Frost Shirley branch #24.

Branch #32 Lucas/Lukable Shirley/Shally #14909 and #32370 are 0 distance. There are no 1 or 2 distance marker results at this time. The closest is 3 on a 12 marker test.

Branch #13 John Shirley 1728 of Bedford Co. PA #8463: 0 distance with #9328 William Shirley of Bedford Co. PA (assumed brother of John 1728), 1 distance with #13880 Richard and Eliz. Dale Shirley branch #49, #20031and #20218 John & Eliz Barmore Shirley branch #2. There are many 2 distance markers.

Branch #2 John & Eliz. Barmore Shirley #20218 and #20031: 0 distance #13880 Richard & Eliz Dale Shirley #49 of Barren Co. KY. and 1 distance with following branches:

2 markers distance for John & Eliz Barmore Shirley branch #2 with the following branches:

I think you can see who has the largest group of Shirleys. E3b of course. It appears they are not related to the Ettington Shirleys.

(Soon, I will post comments on the distances based on the 25 and the 37 marker tests).

Received 13-25 marker DNA results for kit #14909 branch #32 (Lucas) on Haplogroup R1b chart.

1-25 markers for kit # 25253 branch # 22, (William Stubley) on Haplogroup E3b chart.

See Extended 13-25 marker test results for Walter Shirley branch #19, kit #26077 on chart for Haplogroup R1b. Also 1-12 marker test result for Uriah, son of Richard Shirley of Edgecombe Co. NC, branch #36, kit #27727 on chart for Haplogroup E3b.

Results have been posted on the charts for: AARON AND ANNA CLEVELAND BRANCH #42 KIT #26725, and for WALTER SHIRLEY BRANCH #19 KIT #26077.

As you can see, the DNA results for the Aaron group of Laurens Co. SC shows that there is a relationship to the Abbeville Co. SC and Barren Co. KY Shirleys. Study this for yourself. They are on the same chart...Haplogroup E3b.

The new result for the Walter group matches the other 2 participants who were father and son for the Walter group who descend from Samuel, son of Walter Shirley b. 1728 (son of the first Walter Shirley branch #19). The new testee descends from Lawrence brother of Samuel, son of Walter b. 1728.

I have mentioned getting a distant cousin ... like 3 - 5th cousin from you... if you can find one, to do the DNA test. This is a perfect example of the distance. A great distance for comparison. I don't think the participants know one another, but hope they will now. They share not only ancestors together, but both did the DNA test for the Walter group. That should be a bond also. You will find this result posted on the chart for Haplogroup R1b.

Was just checking on my administration page to see when the next DNA results are scheduled. They have listed the following dates:

December 18th for 2 people, December 22nd for 2 people, January 1st one person and January 15th 1 one person.

These can be extended results from those who have already done the 1-12 marker test, and they can be new people who have done 1-12 marker test or 1-25 marker test. Will be interesting to see these. Patience!

We need some branches to get involved that have not yet had a representative do a DNA test for them. Please contact me. Bettyshirley@comcast.net

Just realized I should post some info that has come in since August 28th, 2004. I have gotten behind on this page again.

DNA results for 2 people have just arrived. Will appear on the charts soon. Check tomorrow or the next day. The results are for the William Stubley Shirley group #22 and for Moses Shirley group #61 of Habersham Co. GA.

Haplogroup Test Challenge: your matches suggest that you belong to Haplogroup ___. During the months of October and November, we will give you the opportunity of challenging our prediction capabilities. While our regular SNP test price is $100, we will be reducing this price to $50 to confirm your Haplogroup. But better than that, if we were wrong in our prediction we will keep testing your Y-DNA at no additional charges, until we have your Haplogroup confirmed! Challenge FTDNA and (order) a Y-DNA SNP test for my confirmed Haplogroup.

For those who do not know your Haplogroup, this may be of help or of interest to you.. Go to your personal page that was sent to you from Family tree DNA and click on your kit number. I can't see how yours is set up, but from my administration page, that is how it works. When the page opens, click on Orange tab that says Haplogroup. When that page opens, it should tell you the same as above... the Haplogroup Test Challange. Where (order) is marked above in red, is where on your page you can click that word order and it will take you to your page with your name and address and all that stuff.

I didn't know they were having a special on this test until I was in Houston. I forgot about it until yesterday and decided I better post this in case some of you want to take advantage of this special price. In fact, the special was only for October and when they said they had run this special, everyone in the audience sighed and started chatting and so it was obvious not all of us knew about this. So, their must have been some arm twisting to extend this as I see it where I described about. I don't know if it is advertised anywhere else on their site or not. I really haven't spent time to track it down.

New results have come in for branch #25 kit #21750 Haplogroup R1b 13-25 markers and for branch #20 for kit #23521.

Check the charts for additional results. Kit #'s are: #8437 branch #7, #20218 branch #2, #8444 Cornwall Co. England Shirleys. these were for 37 markers! Also #22903 branch #5, #22340 branch #61 for Haplogroup E3b.

Hapalogroup Rb1, #20492 branch #60, and #21750 branch #25 (his father told him they were from the New Hampshire Shirleys. I have nothing other than that to go on. Our participant is in the hospital with cancer, and it doesn't look good. His wife says he has been out of since July 15th '04. He had surgery #5 today. I couldn't get names of ancestors. The father is deceased).

More DNA test results that have come in since June 6th is: Kit #18950 and #21098 is Haplogroup Rb1, 20031 is Haplogroup E3b, 20430 is Haplogroup I,

Sorry I got behind on posting messages here again! The results that have come in since the last posting in April are: #18478 Haplogroup Rb1, #18905, #8463 Xtended testing (37 marker), and #20218 (Shirley branch#2) all in Haplogroup E3b, and in Haplogroup I is # #18513, a family from Notts. Co.

At last, more DNA results. Today we have received results for the Valentine Shirley branch #29, kit #17539. It is off by one marker of the Michael and Katy Franz Shirley branch #30. The Eli Shirley branch #46 is an exact match with branch #7 Thomas and Mollie Grubb Shirley. That one is a surprise! The other result is the extended markers from 25 to 37 for branch #2 John and Eliz. Barmore Shirley. Two additional 37 marker tests have been ordered for other participants. This narrows the connections and may be worth consideration by other participants who have already done the 12 marker or 25 marker. More DNA tests are due later this month.

Sorry I have been so long posting to this page. With all the new changes to our website and being offline for days when the hackers hit our service provider, I forgot this page. So, here is the updates. Thank you Gary for reminding me!

We have a Valentine branch #29 participant and his test results should be coming in soon! We also have new participants for branch #20 Robert and Susan Baker Shirley of PA., branch #56 John Shirley of Darlington Co. SC, and Wayne Co. MS with descendants who went to DeRidder Louisiana. We also have a new participant for Nottingham Co. England Shirleys and another for Stafford Co. England Shirleys.

We have posted results for Kit #16565 branch #56, Kit #16525 branch #41 and Kit #14206 branch #41. Those can be found on Haplogroup R1b page.

Have added my husbands extended marker test results for branch #13. This has taken a few months to get back!

The numbers changed quite a bit in the extended testing. Doesn't look like a very close match, now, does it?

The chart has been updated. The new test result is for a Shirley in the USA whose ancestor, William Shirley, came to Baltimore Maryland about 1834 from England. This family is from the Staffordshire family of Shirleys. Here is the link to read more about this family. http://www.shirleyassociation.com/baltimore_county_maryland.htm

You will also see this group matches very close to the Warwick Co. England group. According to the DNA company they are 2 markers off.

Since the earlier posting today, we have received another DNA test result. This one is for Walter Shirley, branch #19. The DNA is very close and suggests a relationship to the Ettington Shirleys, the main branch. The descendants have said that Walter was the son of the 1st Earl Ferrers. There has never been any proof, and we cannot yet be certain that is correct. There could be other possibilities too as pointed out by Ken.

1) Walter still can't be the son of the 1st Earl because of the inheritance issue I raised in my posted analysis of the subject. The American Walter could not have been disinherited from the Earldom - not possible. It doesn't work that way.

2) It is possible that Walter is a descendant of the Sussex branch (Henry Shirley m Mary Seaman who may have had a son named Walter (b. too early for this one) or those from the Isle of Wight)

3) It is possible that Walter is one of those illigitmimate children of the 1st Earl eventually taking the Shirley surname and leaving for America.

4) It is possible that Walter is a descendant of either the Yorkshire or Dorset Shirleys who are very likely undocumented branches of the Ettington line.

5) It is possible that Walter is a descendant of one of those ancient Derbyshire mainline strays who seem to exist well into the 1400s.
All of these folks should possess the original Ettington male DNA signature.

The extended DNA test results that have not come in for this participant. That may be awhile. I know my husband had his extended test done and it has been maybe... 3 months? They said they had to redo it. Maybe they had to redo it yet another time.

Isn't this DNA testing interesting? Sometimes it raises more questions! But now we know there is a relationship between the Ettington Shirleys and the Walter group. The other Shirleys above would also be related to the Ettington group.

Since the last posting we have received the results for branch #32, Lucas Shirley/Schally, etc. The test result does not match the Michael and Katy Franz Shirley branch #30 as we thought it might. It is off by 5 markers suggesting there is no relationship.

Three Shirleys have signed up for DNA testing since Dec. 5th. Thank you! We need more Shirley branches represented! We especially need a Valentine SHIRLEY descendant to test so we may compare the DNA with branch #30 and #32.

A few weeks ago I received an email from the DNA company about an additional service. I am not sure if everyone who has tested received that message or not. I will share that info here. It is something you may wish to consider.

Family Tree DNA is pleased to announce 37 Markers for Y DNA testing. These additional markers set a new industry standard of product offerings for Genetic Genealogy.

These additional Markers are also now available for upgrade orders for existing 12 Marker or 25 Marker tests. A 12 Marker test can be upgraded to either 25 Markers or 37 Markers. Since testing at Family Tree DNA includes 25 years of sample storage at no additional charge, upgrade orders do not require that a new test kit is sent. The sample storage is especially beneficial for your older relatives, so that they can participate in future advances in the field of Genetic Genealogy.

These new additional 12 Markers for our Y DNA test will provide additional resolution, and especially benefit individuals within our popular Surname Projects. The additional Markers may indicate the branches of family trees, and will reduce the time frame of the common ancestor.

For those who are NOT members of a Surname Project, we do not recommend upgrading to 37 Markers. The upgrade will not provide additional information about migration patterns, or effect the Haplogroup prediction.

For those who are a 12/12 or 25/25 match with another Surname, an upgrade to 37 Markers is recommended before pursuing the match.

As a company whose founder is a genealogist with a firm commitment to the genealogical community, we strongly feel that the option should be available for a customer to check markers results across multiple labs. For this reason, we've included among the additional 12 markers a few cross company markers which should serve towards heightening the customers confidence in the science that all of the genetic genealogy companies strive to provide.

These additional 12 Markers will reduce the time frame to the Common Ancestor. For a 37/37 match, the time frame of the Common Ancestor at 50% probability is 4.7 generations, and at 90% probability is 16 generations.

Pricing for the 37 Marker test and the upgrades to 37 Markers is available at our web site. If you belong to a Surname Project, or have had a test done at Family Tree DNA, log into your Personal Page and click order tests to see the pricing.

Today we received the test results for two more participants. Branch #38 Habersham Co. GA and for Thomas of Washington Co. MO.

This participant is descended from Jordan, which means he descends from Thomas. Thomas was a a resident of Fairfield Co. SC in 1780 when he entered the service as a volunteer. His father died before he was born. After the Rev. War, he lived in Davidson Co. TN. From there to Clinton Co., Fayette Co. and Jackson Co. IL. He then moved to Washington Co. MO.

"Thomas born about 1755. Living in 1840 with Jordan Sherley. Age 85. Service: Roster of NC soldiers DAR p. 186 shows Thomas Shearly, Sergeant, N.C. Army Accounts. Rev. soldier buried in Missouri. Rev. Records 977.8 Msha
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Have added test results to the chart for branch #41. This is an extended test from 12 markers to 25 markers. Also the results are in for the participant for the Michael and Katy Franz Shirley branch #30. Is this a surprise or what? They match closely with the Ettington main line of Shirleys in England. WOW! Can't wait to get the results back in about 4 -6 weeks for the Luke branch #32. Supposedly these were to be German Shirleys who were really Schally's and variant spelling of the Shally name. I guess we will have to wait and see how this plays out. Thank goodness for DNA!

The following info is very interesting. Read it! You may want to consider having your DNA test extended to the 25 marker to see if this might apply to your DNA test as well.

This is an email from the President of the DNA company to one of our participants....

We have an interesting and rare situation with your sample. After performing repeated reruns on the PP3 portion of your Y-DNA test, our lab has determined that one of your markers, DYS 448, simply does not have an allelic value. In short, that marker seems not to exist on your Y chromosome.

We want to reiterate both how uncommon and of what great interest this truly is. Not only is it a biological fact, but it can and should be considered a genealogical indicator, as well.

While very interesting, this did present the challenge of how to fill in this missing DYS value for the purpose of genealogical comparison. In an immediate sense, we have used our database to meticulously compare like samples, those most similar to your own, to arrive at a predicted and likely value. That value is the number that you will see as your allele value for DYS 448.

Based on the methodology we utilized in arriving at this particular value, we have a high degree of confidence that it would match the actual sequence length value at that marker had a value been available for our scientists to obtain.

We offer the following suggestion if you have any interest in further exploring this anomaly: have a cousin or cousins tested. At some point in time, this marker dropped off of your genome. If any cousins with whom you test share the same missing DYS 448, then this indicates that this marker was lost prior to the existence of the common ancestor you share with this person. Conversely, if the cousin tested has this marker, then we know that this change occurred sometime since the existence of the ancestor that the two of you share.

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Email from participant's sister to the DNA company and the PRESIDENT'S answers are in between her questions.

1. Are there any physical problems resulting from this anomaly.

There are no know physical problems known to flow from the Y Chromosome. Currently the only fact associated with the Y Chromosome is the hardness of the name of the teeth.

2. Just how rare if this?

We have 8 cases of this in about 5400 samples tested, so about 1/10 of 1 percent of our samples so far.

3. A 5th or 6th cousin, another descendent of my gggggramdfather, is an 11/12 match with him. This gggggrandfather had a brother and a cousin who's descendents are a 12/12 match with him. Will one of those do? We really aren't able to go any further back than that at this time. The only other 24 marker testee I'm aware of is the one for the descendent of the Devon/Cornwall England line. We don't seem to match with them at all, but it would be interesting to see if that one shows the same thing. I realize you can't discuss that with me.

In the "Shirley" group there are 2 people with this missing marker. 8437 and 8444, both of whom are certainly related.

4.You say this is of truly great interest to you. Why?

The fact acts like a prior in Science...people who share this surname and the missing marker despite having a miss match somewhere else are more likely related because they have a joint "anchor' tying them together...Given the number of miss matches I suspect that this event happened quite a while ago or quite recently...given the number of Shirley males who have tested this is easy to ring around.

5. It might be interesting to know how this geanealogical indicator, as you call it, works.

The indicator is a void. Something wasn't copied to the son of the father..and nearly certainly the father was the same father (or GGGGrandfather) of them both. That is what makes this an interesting fact for us.

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"??difficulty of the name of the teeth.??
The President of the DNA company... Bennett Greenspan.

The enamel of the tooth apparently IS information that has been tied to the Y chromosome...If your Father has weak enamel on his teeth this is something that will, apparently, get passed to the child, but that's it as far as the Anthropologists know.

I would heartily suggest that you now contact the potential English folks with this surname. It is a great opportunity to leap across the puddle.

Given the nature (the signature---i.e. the rarity) of the dominant members of this group the 12 marker test will probably work well, but if the Englishmen match the R1b...the most common DNA signature in Europe, the 25 marker test will become important.
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We have received the results for 2 participants who had the extended testing done. Both had the same situation. That is the Cornwall England participant and one of our Thomas and Mollie Grubb Shirley participant. We have two more in the works and will be waiting for the results of those in about 2-3 weeks. In the mean time... you may want to have your DNA extended to see if you also have this missing marker.

I WANT TO BE SURE I HAVE POINTED OUT THIS MISSING MARKER WAS DISCOVERED IN THE 25 MARKER EXTENDED TEST. BOTH PARTICIPANTS HAD HAD THE 12 MARKER DONE SOMETIME AGO. THEY BOTH DECIDED THEY WANTED TO EXTEND THE TESTING. THAT IS WHY YOU MAY WANT TO EXTEND YOURS... THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DONE THE 12 MARKER TESTING.

I did receive an email from Bennett Greenspan responding to my earlier request of an overview of our Shirleys so far. Here is his reply to that question.

You have many men in your group who are E3b…Semites, but at this point they are 4 steps away form anyone we have in the database so can't yet predict if they are from the Neolithic expansion into Europe 8500 years ago, or from Jews who came from the same general area to Europe beginning about 2,000 years ago.

11344 appears by his DNA signature to be Nordic in origins, and 9309,8434,8759,8613,and 8579 are in Haplogroup R1b--western European in origins.